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About the VSH points

Discussion in 'Team Fortress 2' started by PixelBacon, Jan 17, 2015.

  1. PixelBacon

    PixelBacon Registered

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    Some people actually seem to care about that... I'm not really one of those, but it's hard to not try and be on top of the list: http://gameme.lethal.zone/players/tf2

    Anyway, some of the classes are able to get extra points by doing certain actions, while other don't. Why?

    The list as of now (hopefully I didn't miss something):
    Scout: Mad Milking Hale gives you 1 point
    Soldier: Airshotting Hale (with rockets) gives you 1 point
    Pyro: -
    Demoman: -
    Heavy: - (You may count throwing Sandviches, but come on, who actually uses that when you have the shotgun?)
    Engineer: Points for buildings (5 for sentry, 5 for dispenser, 2 for each teleporter, 2 for minisentry upon building. If the round ends with the Engineer alive or the Engineer destroys the buildings by himself, he will lose those points again, meaning you will only get (or better, keep) the points if A. Hale destroys them and B. You will keep the points of your sentry since it gets destroyed when you die)
    Medic: Ubercharging gives you 5 points, reviving someone gives you 1 point
    Sniper: -
    Spy: -

    What I think is missing:
    Scout: Stunning Hale with the Sandman: 1 point (maybe 2 points for complete stun)
    Soldier: Activating Buff Banner, Concheror or Battalion's Backup: 1 or 2 point(s)
    Pyro: Airshotting Hale with Flare guns: 1 point
    Demoman: Airshotting Hale with grenades: 1 point (maybe stickies too?)
    Heavy: - (Already has top damage points most of the time)
    Engineer: Somewhat tweak the points for him. It's pretty stupid that you will lose your building points if your sentry/dispenser is just perfectly placed, so Hale will never reach it.
    Medic: - (Medic gets enough points already)
    Sniper: Jarating (is that a word?) Hale: 1 point, airshotting Hale with the Huntsman: 1 point
    Spy: very, very big maybe: Successful backstab: 1 point, but since Spy can get tons of damage easily, he already gets top damage points most of the time
    All classes: Goomba'ing Hale: 1 point

    Those're just my opinions, I wouldn't mind if it stays the way it is now :p
     
  2. Zano0

    Zano0 Registered

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    This is a pretty good idea, I can't see any flaws in it.
    I'm sort of a competitive person, but I'm not a competitive player, this point system frustrates me all the time, even if you get more points than lose.

    I wish there was a way to disable gameMe points entirely, so I could play like back in the good old days, where you couldn't lose points.
    A disable command wouldn't allow your points to change at all, if someone kills you, he will simply get points worth the kill, but you couldn't lose points.

    Everytime I lose points I feel that I'm not good enought and everytime I get alot of points I just ignore it.
     
  3. rswallen

    rswallen Wizzard

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    Pointfarming could be considered a mighty big flaw (that's why engies currently receive no points for building stuff and lose none if they destroy them via the pda/round-end)

    Can't be done. If such a system were implemented, most players would only enable points when they were the boss.

    However, you may find the following comands useful:
    Code:
    [+] gameme_display [0|1] - Enable or disable displaying console events
    [+] gameme_chat [0|1]    - Enable or disable the displaying of global chat events
    
    Saying all that, some of these ideas ain't bad (though I think it's a definite 'NO' regarding extra points for backstabs)
     
    #3 rswallen, Jan 17, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2015
  4. Zano0

    Zano0 Registered

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    Didn't think it that way, but thanks for those commands. Now gameMe shouldn't be bugging me about points.
     
  5. PixelBacon

    PixelBacon Registered

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    Now THAT is nice. I wish you said there was something like that before.

    Figured as much. I wasn't entirely sure myself either.
     
  6. Snelvuur

    Snelvuur King of Sand

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    If you guys hate that crap from gameme so much, more people might have that too. I can add something in the rotating "ads" that says above information.
     
  7. The_Comedian

    The_Comedian Registered

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    It's nice that there's a way to compete in VSH but sometimes people get a little bit obsessed and carried away. Just remember to chill and not worry about points from time to time :rolleyes:
     
  8. Zano0

    Zano0 Registered

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    Could it be made possible to permanently disable gameMe chat and display, untill you re-enable them.

    Or do I have to bind the keys for those commands, since I have to constantly type them everytime the map changes or I leave the server.
     
  9. Yolbe

    Yolbe Registered

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    I think it would be better to change the losing points System.

    For example: In the first round I get 10 Points. In the second round I get 12 Points. In the third and last round I lose 25 Points because I got soloraged.
    With the System atm. I would have now -3 Points for playing 30 minutes just to decrease my Points instead of increasing them.
    What I would like to change is, that there should be no minus Points at the end of a map, you can only get to 0 points minimum.
     
  10. Zano0

    Zano0 Registered

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    The old point system used to be kinda like that, you didn't get points for kills if I recall, the more you played the more you had points, which I liked.
    Comedian had the most points and he couldn't be beaten, as he got more points as well.

    This was fixed by making the current point system, which indicates that who is better by removing points when you fail. While the old system indicated who had played the most.

    The point system

    Which point system do we want? Do we want a system which shows who is the best, or the old one which shows who has played the most and therefore could be the most skilled?

    I think we should have both: The system that you are suggesting.
    While not feeling awful about losing points, the system rewards you for each kill, therefore indicating how good you are, as killing a player requires skill.

    But the more you play, you still wouldn't lose points. This indicates who has played more than others, just like the old system. This kind of system rewards those who play hard and long, yet not punishing anyone, which everybody likes.
    It would be equal to everyone if everyone gets the same amount of points, you just simply have to play harder and longer if you wish to score the top boards, just like with old and the current system.
     
  11. rswallen

    rswallen Wizzard

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    Actually, you did. When you killed a player, they lost points equal to those you gained, JUST LIKE NOW (the two systems even use the same formula to decide the amount - we have just changed some of the variables)

    The system we used to use (HLStatsX) was configured in such a way that, regardless of whether you played as the boss, you could earn lots of points because (a) you didn't lose as many when you died (16 max) and (b) you didn't gain as many for kills, the net result being players who focused on dealing damage as a merc (as opposed to getting kills as a boss) could easily sit at the top of the scoreboard. The new system is configured to make playing as the boss more rewarding, whilst trying to avoid a runaway top10 (ie with points that could easily increase by a couple of hundred per session)

    PLEASE NOTE: These points you obtain should NOT continue to increase forever!
    They are an indication of skill, and once you reach a value that represents your skill level, the rate of increase will slow considerable (if not stop altogether and lead to a decrease in points), meaning that in order to raise your rank, you must display increased skill.

    The decision to add deductions for the use of boss abilities (RAGE, bravejump, teleport) was made on the basis that players who use these abilities sparingly (whilst still managing to kill an entire team) should be ranked higher than those that just ragespam. Thus, should you find your "points" decreasing, limit the use of these abilities (and try not to die so much :D).
     
  12. Zano0

    Zano0 Registered

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    Ah, I get your point :D, it appears that I recalled somewhat wrong.
    But, back to my earlier question:

     
  13. PixelBacon

    PixelBacon Registered

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    It's not that I mind the new point system, it's just like this:
    With the HLStatsX, Comi was at the top of the list with an enormous amout of points while never playing Hale (just as an example). Now, to be anywhere near the top of the list in gameME, you NEED to play as Hale. You just don't have any other option to get points, because if you die once, BAM, 25 points gone (in most cases) which will negate any other possibility to get points by other means. I understand the factor to balance yourself out at a specific value of points, but that brings me to the next factor:

    The points which you lose to the well-known F2P ragespammer. You did tweak the pointstealing for 50 kills to get regular points to 10 kills. Problem is: This doesn't solve anything. Now you may get "more" points (you get 3 points instead of 2, because the other person has at max 1.5k points) from killing people as Hale, but on the other end you will lose way more points by normally playing against a ragespamming F2P Hale, because they only have 1.5k points at max (probably because of the ragespamming) and get you to lose 25 points everytime you get killed, just because you played longer on this server than them.
    Meaning: There needs to be another way to tweak that formula. Maybe a specific amount of time needs to be played on LZ servers to get the normal point gaining for themselves, but not the point losing, meaning you will still get normal points for killing them, but they don't).

    If you think that's unfair against the new players: Remember that they will ALREADY lose less points (to the amount of 4 or less, don't try to argue against that, I saw it) if you kill them, just because you have more points than them. Maybe they'll even see it as an encouragement to keep playing here to get the normal point gaining, who knows?
     
  14. Shadow

    Shadow Registered

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    If you're that butthurt about losing points for being ragekilled maybe an alternative suggestion would be to check for people who were killed during rage and deduct point loss to a certain number overall because targets are sitting ducks, just an idea, don't care about points anyway :D
     
  15. PixelBacon

    PixelBacon Registered

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    I suggested that a while ago (less points for ragekill), maybe if it's not just me Jelly can do something about it if that's even possible, yes? :3
     
  16. Snelvuur

    Snelvuur King of Sand

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    If that is possible ofcourse :)
     
  17. rswallen

    rswallen Wizzard

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    Got an idea for that might work (for the whole rage kill = less points). Can't do any testing until the weekend/next week.
    Other options:
    • Change the ratio of points given to damage dealt
    • Same as the above, but separate ratios for each class
    • Revert "kills required for normal points" to 50 (thanks to some prodding from Snelvuur, I think I now know how to disable the boss ability point deductions for new players)
     
  18. PixelBacon

    PixelBacon Registered

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    Nice, but no need to hurry. It's better when it's done properly and takes longer than when it's done fast but poorly.

    With "ratio of points given to damage dealt" do you mean you get more points if you kill someone with more damage as Hale? Or do you get more points if you do more damage as Hale? Or is it something completetly different: You get points in gameME for doing certain amounts of damage as the normal player? plz eksploin :D

    So new players don't lose points when they rage/jump/teleport but all others do? What's the point of that? :confused:
     
  19. rswallen

    rswallen Wizzard

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    Currently, for every 600 points of damage you deal during a round you get 1 point on GameME (the boss too). I'm suggesting a potential change to one or both of the values (ie 2 points for each 300)

    New players take longer to reach "regular points" -> less ragespam kills lose 25 points to F2P (ignore the penalties as they are new)
     
  20. PixelBacon

    PixelBacon Registered

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    Didn't even know that... But yeah, maybe turn that up a little.