Arena server purpose

Hi, everybody's wondering now "who the fuck this guy is and what does he want?"

Well, actually i'm a new member of the community, i've been for few time on the forum and almost for no time on mumble because i had some problems in this period ( pc problems, new war team that was testing me, and volunteer work to apply for).
Anyway, this is why i've benn not so much present on forum/mumble/servers until now.

I'm an italian player, I managed for a long time to give an hand to my ex community (GoV clan) that it's the very first in italy for the quality of their servers. I managed all of the 3 main servers, but i was a lot in the arena one, we had maybe the most beautiful arena of the world ( exaggerated? uhm... maybe, but i sure loved that server).
Anyway, that server was screwed up after some problems with the community itself (bad recruitment campaign that bringed in the community a lot of kids that weren't interested in nothing but wearing the tag) and for other reasons i left that community.

Anyway, i had my only war play period, and now i'm usually a lot of time in the public servers, altought i really feel "orphaned" of a really good arena servers.

The GoV arena servers worked a lot until i left it for another project (an only custom map one) that failed for not so much interest and no community support.
In arena we had a lot of regular and affectionated players, and a lot of people (even not in the community) that enjoy to sit in the server and play even 2v2 or 3v3 for a long time.
I have a lot of friends of the old arena and i think i can bring them to a potential new arena server as the old one they were so in love with.

Our arena was kinda particular and that's why i enjoyed that so much, i will put down a list of all the points with reason i think they should be accepted by the community.

Gov arena :


NO ENGINEER

The engineer is a class for campers, very hard to take down for some classes if he fortify himself with sentry + dispenser.
Some weapons grant him kritz for each sentry kill if the sentry is destroyed, and even 2 or 3 crits in arena after a lot of fight is so damn OP. Let's think about an engi that have to battle with a low scout and a very low soldier at almost the end of the battle. if he don't get pointed on his fortifications he can easily strike and get back to the sentry + dis. if he gets pointed by both of the enemy he can willfully let the sentry be destroyed to gain the kritz and push then with the kritz + pistol.
Also he is the only one (excluded the medic) in an arena like the gov one, that could heal himself with the dispenser and the only one that doesn't have to engage players to deal damage. Also the sentry now can be moved in another place and setted as a trap for the enemies.
We don't even have to talk about the mini sentries i think, you can spam them like there's no tomorrow and have 2 sentrys at the beginning (100 + 100 metal) plus another sentry for a medium metal pack and 2 for the big one, which is so common to find in most of the arena maps we played on.

SANDWICH

The sandwich in arena is the most horrible thing a player can use to have more possibilities against the other players. What's the point? An heavy has 300 hp as we all know, which in an arena are so much, anyway, that's not enough for an heavy to get massive advantage on the other players. 90% of the medics usually sticks with the heavy (never understood why, the heavy most of the time is unable to cover their asses). Anyway, we have a guy that has the most high hp in the game, the most dangerous weapon of the game for damage output, especially when close and he can stand A LOT of damage.
Somebody would say " with the sandwich he lost his rifle", have you ever seen a single fucking heavy use that rifle in arena?
They don't need the rifle, they sticks with the medic, they take ammos by the killed persons or in the map spots that offers ammos, the heavy will never ever need the rifle, and just in case he needs it, the sandwich is a much better opportunity for him to save his ass.
With the new update we get back to the old days, the sandwich is high spammable and has no cooldown if eated and not thrown on the floor (also if the heavy throws the sandwich on the floor and get back to full life he can take a little health kit and his sandwich will come back.)
Let's think about the heavy, after a lot of battles he eventually lose his medic, what to do? just wach a bit here and there and tank the players until the overheal keeps you at 450 hp, then, if the heavy is unable or not good to play he will take damage, he will cover his ass with the minigun and hide for 2-3 seconds to eat the sandwich,or not hide at all and throw the sandwich right near him and look for a kit to do the same again.
Well, often i found myself with not heavy classes at like 60 hp (scout) for the war battle, and this heavy keeps chasing me until i was able to find the right spot to ambush him and take some of his health and run away again because 2 single bullets of his minigun (maybe even one at close distance) can kill me easily.
Anyway, this is the scene when the heavy doesn't camp.
One time i found an heavy that was camping on the roof of lumberyard, taking him was hell. He camped there, waiting for me to engage him, then while i was running away low, he took his sandwich and waited me there, doing this shit 4 times in a row.
Giving the chance to heal himself to the most heavy class, with the most hp, always with the medic and who often take ubers is a little too much i think. OP all the way.

NATASHA

Well, anybody that played in arena and has meet an heavy with natasha got mad fast. As we said, the heavy is always overhealed, with the medic at his ass and doesn't have to aim well with natasha, for the really strong slowdown it causes.
Think about a central point of a map like granary with two heavies and two medic on top (even one medic is enough to unleash hell).
The heavies will force you to get back because of the slowdown and they will easily get the central point, the only classes that can really point them are spy and sniper, but usually the sniper get quickly engaged by other classes, mostly the scout and rushing demo and solly. So only the spy reamins, if the spy is not so good he won't take the both heavies down and the team will be forced to leave the central point, which in the most cases in little maps like the arena one is losing.
Also, the best way to kill an heavy is the run/hide and gun technique, because a direct push on him is suicide for most of the classes. Well, with natasha it's impossible, the player can't run away, because as soon as he's spotted he got slowed down
and if he can run away he will be very low, while the heavy can still have a medic or a point to camp.
Maybe is not enough for everyone, but all of the people that doesn't agree should really try to play a game in arena against a natasha heavy.

NO RANDOM KRITZ

Well, this can be the same as the kritz question in the public servers, but aggravated by the fact that there's no respawn in arena. Think about the start of a round, a buffed demo or solly jumps palce a good sticky or rocket and 4-5 people are down because it's a random kritz, without the killed players be able to do nothing to savte their asses.
Also, i really love the arena because of the challenge it offers and as a training server. It force you to use your senses and watch everywhere around you. It's usually cool to see people ( like i did XD) won a 1 vs 4-5-6 or a 2v12 with the medic.
The arena really challenge the player to give the max in all of the situations and can be really fun to watch and cheer when you get killed if the ambient is friendly and familiar.
Random kritz kill the challenge and the fun of tryin to win a game in disadvantage.

MAP CYCLE

In the arena server we tried to have even some custom maps, but it didn't work, mostly because i didn't have the time to really test some good custom arena maps.

So we were running these maps that always worked well.

BADLANDS (X2), GRANARY, WELL, NUCLEUS, RAVINE, LUMBERYARD,OFFBLAST

We tried some maps that wroked as well ( sawmill, harvest) but those werent SO favourites as the previous one
As i said some really good custom map was to be tried, but in the last period i was involved in another project and i didn't have the time.

Well, i don't know other reasons for explaining how i love the arena and how much arena is popular, on the countrary of what i always tought about it before trying it.
I'm really sure that i can bring some players to play regularly in an arena like the one i wrote about above (like 10-12 regular players) and other will soon come.

The new weapons should be discussed, to see if there's something really op, for the rest i can offer complete motivation to run the server (sit in, invite people, bring in old friends and talk about the server) but i can understand if you would not even take my "offer" in consideration.

Also, some people will complain for the limits, but if they stay on the server they usually understand why there are limits like my points and they become familiar, if they get away for these limits, usually they're not players that get affectionated to a server i think.

That's all i tought about for the moment, we can discuss this points if you want (and other ones i didn't think about).
I just want to let you know that these request is motivated by passion for the game, for a growing community and a familiar and friendly ambient to play in, which is usually the thing i'm always looking for.

Sorry for my bad english XD

 

I'm not talking about vanilla server, it's just removing only the very OP weapons.

I know what a deathmatch is, i managed even that one a bit, but it's just a nice alternative to it.

In the deathmatch people can't use medic,spy,heavy and pyro.

The dynamics are very different and it's not THAT competitive oriented as a deathmatch server.

As i said the new weapons should be taken in consideration (so it's not a vanilla server).

 

Here i am.
I fully agree with what was said by Ziano.
In our old community was a very balanced Arena server (nice class limit and some other small details) and it was a pleasure to play,but people from the fun (Arena is fun,but it's at the same time serious: less spam,etc.) haven't fully understood the sense of Arena and preferred to continue to play on other servers.
Sorry for bad english guys

Bye

 

Hi, my name’s Simone and my nick is fuoco (fire). I’m a tf2 player and a friend of Ziano. He asked me if I was interested in a new arena like the old gov one. I thought it was a good idea because I know him and I know how much he’s good at managing servers and because playing there was awesome, mostly for the atmosphere that grew up in that server. I registered myself on the site also because I usually play in your deathmatch and prophunt servers. See you in game.

 

well if some more people show up like this i think it's going to be a nice asset

 

Well the engi question is a bit complicated i think. On some maps a well placed sentry would be deadly for most of the classes (even a little one) and the most important thing, the dispenser. It can heal the engineer while he's covered by the sentry and he can shoot at the enemy meanwhile.Also usually the engi sticks at the spawn, so he's well covered by the teammates at the very begginning ( the time he needs to build a level one sentry and dispenser ) and then he can move the sentry (and the dispenser as well) to another spot and quickly tank people or ambush enemies. Also we are now talkin of a single engineer, we must remember that more people could go engi and the "problems" with him would be multiplied.
We must remember that the arena maps are small, and usually lot of people get seriously injured by a guy that is not even shooting (engi naturally).While On the other hand, i think about classes like the scouts, they're really gain each kill and they usually lose a lot of hp while doing that, running all the way through the map for engagin the enemies, if a scout meets a sentry he's usually out or with no more than 30 hp (lvl 1 sentries with the others he's istantly dead). I always hated camping and always tought about the arena as a lonewolf battleground. I mean yeah, teams can usually work togheter, but if i go in arena i'm more oriented on a personal challenge, more than a coop gameplay. I mean i played a lot for the team too ( blowing burning people, deflecting ubers, pissing on burning people as sniper,switching the ubers exc) but i think each man should fight for himself and there the fights get more excitings, even for the people who watch (sometimes i managed to won a 6v1 and a lot of people we're cheering in chat XD).
Anyway, for a lot of classes, taking down a sentry is impossible (scout, medic alone, sniper) for others really difficult (mostly pyro) and very difficult even for the (demo,solly and heavy alone if the sentry is wrangled).

so :

pro of the engi :

Sentries : are OP, no one has the ability to inflict damage without shooting or engaging the enemy, those can be repaired and he can shoot while the sentry is inflicting damage.Also it can be moved for ambushing enemies and most of the classes are very unadvantaged against the combo sentry + engineer.
The sentry can be wrangled when attacked to get more shield and with the rifle you get free kritz if a poor player magae to distroy it.

Dispenser : It heals the engineer and grant him metal and ammo while the other players can't gain life by themselves at all (medic excluded obv) and can't gain ammos without moving in the map.

Late time fights : ok, let's say i'm low and i have to fight an engineer camped in a good place, i can't try to engage him without taking damage by the sentry (even small amount, but i'ts always damage) and the guy can shoot me too to maximize the damage.
I wait on the point, the engineer can move the sentry and dispenser (or only the dispenser) closer to the point and use a run and gun technique to strike me. In few time i'll be dead, while the engineer can always run away and get health on the dispenser.

Cons :

Damage alone : he doesn't have a great output of damage alone (at least at the medium pub skill) and he's not so fast to run away in a close encounter. His second weapons has only 3 shoots before he's forced to reload, but it offers kritz even multiple ones (and nobody gets them by itself in my ideal arena) and the pistol is a very nice backup.

medium range : he doesn't have long range weapons like the demo or the solly or the sniper, so he's usuallynot so strong against these classes. this always when alone with no dispenser and sentry on.


Basically to resume all, most of the engineers doesn't earn the damage the other classes do, he usually camps (other dont, except maybe the sniper) he can heal himself while doing damage without shooting. Also two scouts (example) are not so terrifing as two engi.

 

Hey.

I was one of the regulars on GoV's arena server. Unfortunately after Ziano not being responsible for that arena anymore they changed basically everything that made that arena AWESOME.

I would be really glad if someone somewhere could set up a arena like Ziano described it.

Maybe... *sniff*... maybe. I've yet to meet one that can outsmart (Natasha) bullet.

But sandwich and random crits definitely do not belong into arena for the reasons Ziano mentioned.

Btw: epic wall of text, Ziano.

 

random crits don't belong anywhere anymore
all classes have some way of doing crits/minicrits now...

 

ehm.. 6 or seven has been contacted yet and are only waiting to find the time to write a registration, i think that other 10/15 are to come in some days/to be contacted XD

 

This server idea is actually a very good one, and I can say it because, well, I played a lot on GoV arena server.
The limitations -or removals- really helps the game balance, since is impossible to make team composed by Snipers (or other class) only.
About the weapons removal, same thing: Sandvich looks innocent against a big horde, but 1v1, when both classes have low HP and Heavy has his trusty food with him, well...He will most likely win.
I think I can't add more...But if this server dream will come true, well...It'll make happy many arena lovers like me!

 

Srsly man? ARE WE SERIOUS?
Of course it's a good idea, mate!
I go crazy for that arena server, 'cause of the disappear of engies and natashas... that is how an arena match is supposed to be, men! Only friggin' skill!
Well... I really want to fill that server, and I'm gonna be really glad if you want to build a new one. I can reach to top10 :badgrin:
So... you've my support and hand, too. *takes his bonesaw and takes off his left hand*