Engie jumping an exploit?

http://www.lethal-zone.eu/page.php?p=rules

rule no5.

Same rules you see when you enter the game.
Yes it's a mapexploit like I told you ingame, that place was never intended to be part of the gameplay.

Don't care whatever name or excuse players give to justify mapexploits or other forms of unjust gameplay which annoy other players who just want to play maps as tey are intended.

It's not allowed on our servers.

 

Well, this has been in the rules for a reason.

Allow 1 exploit and you have to allow them all, because why allowing 1 and not the rest?
Will end up in a discussion of every little exploit on every map.
It will never end and it would be impossible to oversee.

Remember the engy exploit to build a sentry under the map?
Harmless and fun for that 1 engy but highly annoying for all other players.

 

never even tried to get there as demo/soldier xD

 

Been there lots as demo, its not like one can live there long once noticed. Its an exploit for the engy to get there, but not for soldier/demo.

there are lots of high hidden places for soldier/demo to sit on on badwater, think I found bout 20 or so, and prolly forgot half of them. most are not handy, but some like near the roof (not the above one) and near the ramp are damn usefull. Trick is to jump off once you kill them, so they don't find your spot

 

I wouldn't say it's knowing the "map" well. it's more like knowing the "flaws" in the map well. I don't think that spot is supposed to be there, it's probably a fault in the map. (as you can not walk over the whole roof.)
nonetheless it's an mapexploit.

most of the sollies, demomen don't know about that spot. Unless they've seen it in a vid or because someone else is doing it. and if someone else is doing it, they'll be doing it too and suddenly the unnoticed exploit becomes known, Then people start abusing the exploit too. *just like the mole-engineer* that's why we don't allow all these things.

"An exploit, in video games, is the use of a bug or design flaw by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game's designers. "
You'll have an advantage on that spot on a way that's not intended by the designers.

 

Personally i stand by Doelwits explanation.

Myself, (which strokes against doelwits) is that if i see something like this, i usally think "it will be gone fairly quickly anyway, so why bother" .. i'll know valve will fix the engy..

anyway, the other 2 spots are in my eyes also pretty easy to take out.. but basicly the engy is not suppose to "fly" making the places where you put your sentry a exploit by default.

 

Well, you see, it is forbidden to use glitches and exploits. But in your example you don't need to jump in the hole of invisible brush or something like that. And demoman with soldier can do it as well. So I don't think it's forbidden.

 

I dont even know how to do the wrangler jump D:

Anyway, being a solly/demo getting up there is fine tbh, I mean, like said there is loads of random places to get to. But an engi can defend himself against an army if there is no way to get around him or destory the dispencer. And in this example, there isnt.

So yeah, an exploit that shouldnt be used.

 

I'm of the same opinion as amongst others Doelwit. The best sign it's not supposed to be reachable:

Parts of the map aren't rendered when standing there. Clearest indication of an area you shouldn't be able to stand on.

 

As often those small ledges are made for demo's and soldiers for a reason by valve, so a high place for a solly/demo is not a "exploit". There are hundreds of places on all maps their maps where those can jump on. If valve does not intend it, its just a item thats drawn, but has no "model" in it to stand on... you literally fall through the beams where they dont intent you to be.

As such, another small ledge on badwater, and a bad one as well, is for demo/solly not a big problem. Oh, and a engy can get on that roof there also by other means than using his sentry to jump. But the chance of that is however very unlikely.

But tbh, "no exploits allowed" is way to vague... take an example here:

http://www.gtfogaming.co.uk/community/e ... t4523.html

They have another tread to report them., and the list is long, some things may seem a bit strange to be added to it, but they vote internally on it if its an exploit. They made that list just to have something to point to and say they don't allow that. The obvious stuff is not in it (building inside spawn, in skybox, outside map etc). I have pointed out quite a bunch for them.

Upward has more bugs than I can care to numerate all, but a couple:
- Red sniper can shoot into blue spawn
- blue players can get out of spawn before the round starts
- red players can get into blue spawn. (demo, engy, soldier, scout).
- red engy can build on top of blue spawn. (blue can too, but prolly wont care for it gives no advantage to them)
- blue/red players can kill players in the red 1st spawn/blue 3rd spawn thru the floor with stickies.
- as a engy you can build a tele to a restricted area that after a certain cap gets closed, once some1 tele's, the gate to final point opens again allowing him out. Nobody can get there cos it closes again.
and the list goes on and on and on.

 

yep upward is one big exploit :lol:
well we can use those screens and the make some of our own screens. (junction not needed because it's a shitmap and is banned to be played ever again :evil: )

 

wow, their list is way too strict ! I mean, even places an engi could reach before the update are banned ?!
It's okay for some places when it's really "out" of the map, but i hope you'll not share all of their rules. For exemple, would you forbid this : http://www.gtfogaming.co.uk/files/tf2_e ... ater01.jpg ?

 

Imo, out of the map is an exploit, but it shouldn't be an exploit if a soldier or demo can get there (and it's part of the map). Why else would Valve made sentry-rockets on mouse2?

It's much easier for engi to get to the roof on B on gravelpit or on the roof on mid on fastlane. Both can be obtained without rocketjumping.

As long as it isn't out of the map or there are no missing textures, it's fine for me, and I think it shouldn't be considered an exploit.

And indeed, they are way too strict...

 

yeah, not my rules, lol, and I've seen that spy's can sap stuff on top of it.

Of all their "exploits", that one is taking the most of the attention/bans etc (often just destroy buildings if admin on, if reported a 1 day ban)

they handle the "3-strike and your out" rule... first ban 1 day, 2nd a week, 3rd is perm. (hacks is 3 strikes, no real appeal, unless proof is dodgy)

And for the most parts I just agree. cos once a engy is on top of Gravelpit B roof and has his stuff there, where he should not even be. I've played on servers with on the roof of B a bunch of sentries, and that was no fun. Now with the wrangler, you will even have a hard time sniping them off. I reported the roof of the shed in between point B and the Blue exit near the tunnel as well, that one will prolly be added too.

You have to understand, all those maps where never designed with a engineer that is able to rocket-jump. Its only recently they started work on the engy update and added the possibility to rocketjump with the sentry.

Tbh, I dont think Valve intended rocketjumping with the sentries. I just don't think they will try to prevent it by patching it away, prolly breaking way more of the game mechanics than solving any. Roofs, sheds, ledges etc are not intended for it. and as always, valve relies on the server admins to enforce rules bout them. They may fix a couple things, often just when they update a map cos of imbalance.

But I dont expect valve to solve all those map problems. They never listened to old exploits either.

 

Just wonder why valve doesn't playtest their maps a bit better.
( by a select group of diehard gamers, would not be too hard to organize)

Is there a comparison between community maps and valve maps in regard of bugs/exploits?
Would be a fun thing to compare

 

well on B rooftop :roll: don't realy know if we should think of it as en exploit

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bW8hrjo0j3o[/youtube]

THIS was a exploit for me a glitch is something that gives the engineer the advantage that nobody can reach him (nowhere realy just stab/sap his ass) but you know what i mean a sentry nest with 3/4 engineers and now way to get them down
(also know some glitches that work now in some maps like one in swiftwater but not going to show it because then everybody is going to try haha) but as admin (not sure if mini admins can do this) you can destroy engineer buildings, i installed the plugin and made a nice menu addon for it (select destroy buildings, name of the engineer and then the building hehe)

On top of gravelpit B there are milions of ways to get it off (if they even have time to build it)

looking at upward (and all previous maps) i think comunity maps are less frequent to have these kind of glitches (most of the time the mappers look for possible glitches themselfes and fix them in the RC versions, i didn't count beta-maps becouse they are known for the glitches)