Hungarian Students Rally Against Government

You will be offered student loans though, which is how it works in the UK.

It might suck that the new generation wont be getting it for free like it has been, but how do you expect the government to cut the deficit and pay for everything at the same time?

University is a privilege, not a right. If you want to go to uni and get yourself a better job then take out a student loan and pay it back when you get a decent job.

My opinion based on what I read above.

 

Biggest bullshit I've heard so far. And that says a lot. The right education for your level of intelligence is a fundamental human right. It's been recorded in so many treaties and for good reason. If you're capable of uni, then you should be able to go there. No matter how much money your parents make. You're a cruel person if you'd deny others their conception of the good life simply because their parents weren't as smart as yours. Utter bs.

I'm not saying that the government should just pay up for everybody whenever btw. But they should fully support those in need. That's why they're there.

 

I agree everyone is entitled to education, and sure if your capable of completing a degree then yes you should be entitled to a place at university.

The problem is when everyone has a degree, what value does it have? Degree's are not only required but expected for most semi professional jobs.

I am not talking privilege as in how rich or smart your parents are, but whether you the student are actually able to complete it, if your stupid then no you shouldn't go to university, because you won't be able to finish it.

Money issues should not be the deciding factor on whether you can go to university (this is what a student loan is for, what 18 year old has £27,000+ lying around to spend on uni) but your talent and intelligence.

I am sorry my first post did not make this clear.

 

I agree with Killvion. Education is mandatory to find a suitable job in society. If you restrict it to those who have enough funds, you're basically stopping social mobility, and bringing back the social classes. Going against the morality behind democracy, since it promotes freedom of the residing civilian and on how he spends his/her life.

P.S. This post was made before Angry Kittens' last post was submitted. (I forgot to send mine )

 

All very well, but stopping with government funding and implementing a system of student loans is in no way an efficient, good or moral way of trying to achieve the fact that only smart people go to uni. I'm not sure about how this works in the UK, but only 10% of the people in the country go to university. The other 90% gets extra education after high school in places for their level. (There are two other sorts of higher education). Our university papers always mean something, partially because if you don't get 2/3 (or in some places even all) of your points (ECTS) for that year, you aren't allowed to continue with the study. This makes sure that only the at least somewhat smart people can continue and actually get a degree.

Measures like that, and possibly even selection at the gate with tests and stuff would ensure the quality and meaning of a degree from universities. If you want to improve the quality of education/keep the specialness to a universal degree, implement systems that filter out the dumb from the smart, not the rich from the poor.

And now you might say, aye, but if you're smart and you know it, you'll get a good job and pay the loan back and have no problem, and if you're not so smart, you'll think twice about going to uni. However that might be true for some, there is firstly the case that the fact whether you'll actually get that job depends on way more than your quality. And people that can easily complete university and totally belong there, aren't always as good in job interviews or just have bad luck. These factors, especially in this economy, could easily make sure that a young person that is looking to buy a house or start a business, won't be able to do this, simply because (s)he still has a huge debt. That's unfair.

Secondly there is the case with the people who perhaps shouldn't be in uni, but would now do it because they get financial help from the gov and think "what the heck why not". They'll probably drop out and won't get a degree, or they'll take very long and get a HUGE debt, which they won't be able to pay off because they won't be getting that good job, because there are others with the same degree, but much better skills. Now that person is fucked for the rest of his life, or at least the first few decades of it. That's unfair too. You might think it's his own fault, but (s)he was just not bright enough to foresee this, that's why it went wrong in the first place.

If you want to tackle these problems, then make uni harder, don't do anything that causes unfair extra restrictions on the lower social economic classes, creating an even larger gap between rich and poor.

Now I get that you're not evil at heart Kittens and I understand that your aim is not to prevent the poor from studying if they are capable of it. But there are many roads that lead to Rome, only some of which are efficient and pleasant.


:edit: That turned out to be quite a longer post than I had anticipated. It's just one of the things that I care deeply for.

 

I'm not disagreeing with what you wrote, changing the way people get into university could well be a great solution but that is something every university would have to agree on. I doubt the government would try (or even be able) and enforce such a change.

The way student loans work over here, you only start paying it back when you earn over a certain amount a year. I think the current threshold is £15,795 a year. Even then only a small amount is deducted from your wages. If you haven't paid it back after 20 years then it is written off.

This I believe is a fair way to pay for tuition fees. You only pay it back if you get a decent job, and the government doesn't have to find the funds (or not as much) to send everyone to university for free.

 

That sounds like quite a fair system indeed, my government is trying to pass a similar system at the moment, but as of now I'm not yet content with the way they're doing it. However, my government has already put through the idea of the minimum study points. The uni can decide themselves how they want to do it exactly, but I believe the minimum is like 35 out of 60 points. Some do 40, or 45 and one even does the full 60 as requirement.

Passing this kind of legislation would be quite possible. The government is above the universities after all.

 

Read this on my phone, so may have missed bits.

I don't know of anyone that hasn't gone to uni because they, or their parents can't afford it. I think kittens was saying that it isn't mandatory for people to go Uni, therefore not a right. Why should the government give it for "free" if its optional? It is a privilege to go, because its something that you are taking up on your own back. Uni gives you an advantage, something "special" (degree), thus it is a privilege.

And before people say "well you need to go Uni to get a decent job". That's BS, you need to commit yourself to getting a job, doing something on your own back to get that job while not at Uni, thus it is a privilege.

In this day and age, no one is denied from attending a University because they can't afford it - that's what the government does to help, and then you pay them back for it.

EDIT: Unless I'm understanding this wrong, and the goverment isn't offering students a loan and you pay it back, then yes, it is totally unfair, but paying something back that is a privilege and optional, fine with that.

It costs us 9K per year (now) + expenses to go to Uni which we have to pay back.

 

Saying that something can only be right, if it's mandatory is bullshit again. You have the right to free speech. This means nobody can deny it to you. If you decide never to use it, that's your choice. Nobody can force it on you either. Please tell me you didn't really mean this that way.

And yes, there are people that won't go to uni because they can't afford it, or are afraid they can't afford it. The reason that in the NL the plans about changing the way government funds student gets so much resistance is that scientists concluded that some 17,000 people would not go to uni under the new plan, simply because they wouldn't be able to afford it. (For the NL that's a decrease of over 15%). We find that unacceptable.

And you're pretending that everyone that can pay for university will also be smart enough to complete it. Perhaps that's different in the UK, but here only 10% of the population gets allowed in Uni (because of their level of intelligence). That's what makes uni special. It's nonsense to let money play any role in this.

But as I said, I'm not saying that government should just make uni free for anyone. I'm saying that the system has to be fair and carefully thought through and can in no way let money be the deciding factor whether a person does or doesn't go to university.

 

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.ohchr.org/EN/Issues/Education/SREducation/Pages/SREducationIndex.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.ohchr.org/EN/Issues/Educatio ... Index.aspx</a>

Basically, you can't say that university shouldnt be included into the basic right of education.
Saying it is a privilege because people can choose not to use it is contradictive - how are they able to choose if they can't choose to begin with?

Obviously making universities harder or approving of the access to them being so hard just shows the same amount of ignorance towards everything that defines this really basic human right.

> State cant afford to pay as many students
> Make university harder to get less students

And how do you set the limit to who should go to uni and who shouldnt? The smartest of the smartest? The top 1%? Whats the gain for the other 99%? Making something a closed society based on money and limiting it to a certain threshold of all people in a country is equally wrong.
By the way, poor people can just as well be smarter than the rich but wont be able to afford proper support programs to aid them getting through school which they might struggle with due to the missing support of their families.
They fail to reach the NC to go to uni and they should be left out you say.


Making access to university equally easy for all people starts when a child is born, this is not about money or student loans or anything. We have very good systems in europe and if you dont like your country feel free to go to uni in another EU country, thats one of the advantages the EU has.

Oh and if you wish to keep complaining about the european systems to provide the option to go to university, why dont you go to the USA and rethink?