Seriously, you can't let a vote succeed with 60% yes votes. To be votekicked (which is at 50% on most servers) you really got to have 2 aimbots and spam the chat+voicechat with Hitler quotes, scrambling at 60% will never succeed with such a player attitude. Server 2 has been stacked all day, resulting in not a single map (I've played) to be almost even; instead, it was a blue steamrolling attack for 5 minutes over all 3 stages of dustbowl, then stage 1 defense where the former red team had no chance to kill even one sentry. When the map ended, half of the worse team ragequit, in addition to the "normal after-map leaver quota". Votescramble was initiated almost on every map, it never came even close to success. What did come to success was everyone waiting in spectator mode until there was a pace in "their" team, hence 5 on 6 ingame, 10 spectators. When in the end enough players joined and enough quit because they were autoswitched, the previous state - most of the regs in one team - was reached. Repeat. So, what can we do about it? Obviously, saying "Don't stack please" is naive nonsense. Forcing players not to stack brought up 3 ideas: 1. Don't let them choose teams at all, instead add them to teams arena-like. Since this is one of the reasons I don't like arena for it would probably mess up normal servers as well. 2. If a team wins before a certain time is over, auto-scramble teams. This would work best if there was a buddy option so you could specify a player you'll stay together with, still maintaining some friends on your team. 3. Give admins the possibility to scramble teams, and specify when they may and when they should use that function. Again, buddy option would be great here. My way of contribution today was telling over and over that the command isn't "votescramble" but just "scramble", typing that word to initiate a scramble vote, and staying on the winning team (who am I to be the only one going over to the other team, I'm playing to have fun, which was almost impossible on the non-stacked team).
first of all I agree completely, I've been with you this evening and noticed indeed that there was some serious teamstacking going around. no need for names since it could and can be anyone to do it. As stated in the 'sniper ging to be next tf2 update' thread (or something similar) I also like to team up with usually 1 specific friend, so the buddy option is a go for me. I don't know what are the exact options we've got here, so I'm just gonna lay down some fantasy here. The arena-type team division isn't really ging toi work if you make ppl do it, since as you said you oftn want to join with a certain friend. I would advise a lot people to choose the white random door more often but you are absolutly right saying thats to naive to work. However something has to be done about the large number of specs hoping for someone brave or dumb enough to join the 'losing' team. One idea is that when setup time ends, all specs automaticly join a random team. I don't know if this is possible and you would need some sort of spec-lock option for admins trying to fill servers. So I don't know if it's possible but it sounds like an option. The option of auto-scramble when a match is won under a certain time isn't rally optimal imo, since not all maps have the same time they take to be steamrolled, and I'm sure ppl are evil enough to wait just 10s after the time has passed. One other problem is the buddy chosing thing. Sure you can put up a vote choosing what player you want to be with, but then you get a list of 23/31 people you can choose, and that's not really an option imo. I do like the idea of it. Also, if you make sure that you get in a team with your so called buddy, you can make a chain where everyone choses the next person in line, thus practicly making sure you drag a whole chain of players in 1 team. I do prefer the option where admins can initiate teamscrambles without calling votes, it would be an absolute outcome. The rules have to be very clear though, and that is something that might be hard. Also, a possible way to make the buddy sytem work that as soon as the admin scramble has been initiate, all players can type, for instance, !vote [L-TF2] Metamess to chose they want to be with me ( 8) ). Then there is like a 75% probability that player is with me, or some other rule that cancels out the chain event. Problem with this are players with long names or names made out of signs. So imo what has to be done is: - Admins need to be able to initiate teamscramble without calling a vote - If admins do want to call out a scramble vote, do it like the mapchange vote, clearly in sight for everyone to see. - If a direct admin scramble is introduced, clear rules have to be made when to use it, with rules that are preferably self-adapting to the map (example: don't say win in 2 minutes, since time varies per map) - Some sort of clear, waterproof and preferably easy to use system has to be made to give players the option to try stick with a certain person. Example: is that when you choose someone that chooses you, you will be together in a team (if you vote on eachother there is no chain) As said before I do not know what the possibilities are, but this would sound like a good idea to me. At least something has to be done. And to all those that are going to say that not everything has to end with overtime: That's what I mean with making clear rules
sorry, that's just me I'm going to reach that 60.000 charachter limit once soon enough, altough this wasn't even close to an attempt... Read my page on HAWX or TF2 class tactics, they were closer @ Doelwit ty
Books must scare the hell out of you guys. Edit: Metamess, I just figured out that when I understood "Heavy+Medic in defense are almost invulnerable" you actually said "Heavy+Medic in the vents are almost invulnerable". I support your opinion now. Edit 2: Back to topic. Unfortunately, I don't have any idea of what ingame scripting is capable and especially what is available as plugin so far. Scripting a buddy system is surely not a thing of an hour, thus we'd have to rely on external sources here. I'll do a quick search and see what I can find. Edit 3: removed Edit 4: This looks nice: Simple Team Balancer (for our purposes the buddy script), Simple Team Manager (scramble etc). The blabla Manager description states these scripts work together. Looks like exactly what we're looking for.
I'm all for an admin vote option, but indeed with clear rules. Buddy system is maybe hard, will look in above suggestion. But don't have to many buddies to take with you, or that team will be stacked as well. Maybe another option. Is when players go spec, you can't change to another side for about 30-45 seconds, to avoid defectors (link for the not so well english minded peeps about the word) Will give comment later on ST balancer. But nice ideas indeed.
On server 4 I have tested a team balancer/buddy plugin, works pretty good. On that plugin admins could just typ scramblenow or something and the teams would be scrambled. The people who had chosen their buddies stayed together.
That script I mentioned allows only two players to be a buddy pair. If one of them switches to another target, his former buddy is all alone again.
From the ST Balancer notes: Q: Can I have more than 1 balance buddy? A: No. Q: Can anyone make me their balance buddy? A: Depends on stb_buddyrestriction. By default only admins can select a buddy. If open to the public, than anyone can. Q: If someone else selects me as a balance buddy does that override my selection? A: Yes. You can now lock it so that only you can change your balance buddy with the command lockbuddy. Q: Does my balance buddy remain during a map change? A: No. You have to reselect your buddy on a map change. So it can work, but only with 1 buddy, which you can lock. And Red... I'dd rather have a vote, so that it doesn't surprise the players, or an anouncement when the admin makes the choice to scramble and after 10-20 seconds deploy it. Some more info: Q: How does it pick a player to switch? A: The plugin goes through three layers of prioritization: Find a dead player in the following order: * If he is an admin, skip him * If he has been switched before, skip him * If he has a buddy and is on the same team, skip him * If he has a buddy and is not on the same team, switch him * If has buildings built, skip him (stb_priorityenabled 1) * If he is just a regular dead player, switch him Find a living player in the following order: * If he is an admin, skip him. * If he has been switched before, skip him * If he has a uber, skip him (stb_priorityenabled 1) * If he has buildings built, skip him (stb_priorityenabled 1) * If he has a buddy and is on the same team, skip him (stb_buddyenabled 1) * If he has a buddy and is not on the same team, switch him (stb_buddyenabled 1) * If he is just a regular live player, switch him If the plugin still cannot find a player to switch, it will get a random non admin player, and switch him after the delay. So lets disable admin from this option..
That is exactely what the plugin did, you'd typ as an admin scramblenow, and the plugin would give an anouncement that the teams would be scrabled in a few secs. so nice try, but your suggestion is already in the plugin ^^
i dont really get the buddeh option and dont see why admins should be skipped on the process, other then that might definitly be worth a try, really getting tired of stackwhores
1. Don't let them choose teams at all, instead add them to teams arena-like. Since this is one of the reasons I don't like arena for it would probably mess up normal servers as well. yes , then you will get like 10 retries for each player to get in the team they want to be :S
oh plz no no no no no no no! not 1 person who is going to the other team! everybody or nobody!!!! I mean think with me for a sec. team 1 is full of good regulars and everybody is having fun and also talking through the mic. but the teams are unbalanced. one guy is picked out, has to leave the team, and suddenly doesn't have anyone to talk to! that sucks so much ass!!!! if everybody gets scrabled then you'll have atleast someone to have fun with or discus tactics or whatsoever. conclusion: PLZ don't let only 1 guy get moved! *begging face*
I'm all in for the system described above, without the admin dont get switched thing. Stackers are usually regulars and regulars are often admins. It would be nice if there is like a 20 second delay before the swtichnow is put into work, with a display, so that every player knows about it. Also every player should know how to pick a buddy. How quickly can this be put into action? Because I just left from a dustbowl game with teams that were incredibly dull. Spawn exits camped every 45 second with an ubercharge (YES FROM ONE MEDIC, WTH) And as I checed the teams were incredibly stacked again, not to my surprise.
That would be ideal indeed, but I can imagine situations here it's wanted much earlier. For instance dustbowl stage 3, you get about 15 minutes to capture that. That's a good time, you need it and it stays fun. If you can play. If you cannot even capture the 1st point or even get out fo the building, it's not fun. Because you don't get to play. Like I had just a few minutes ago. I would've loved to scramble.
i am fine with the system.. buddy's and all.. i usually go to regulars that talk, since i talk b.s. alot too. So mostly also comet/rasta/whatever because i know i can play medic and have at least a descent person to heal. If i dont have that i wont play medic anyways, and then i play "spy" these days.. (just for the fun of it)
I think we should lower the scramble threshold or just cut the system. Today we were playing 8vs8 on well and our team just got owned one round after the other. I started a scramble vote and we even got to 7-8 votes, but that still wasn't enough of course. Has anyone ever hit the scramble threshold?? I think putting it at 8 should be enough, that requires almost an entire team to vote yes, so abuse is minimal, but at least there might be a vote succeeding for a change..