https://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/f/f0/Heavy_revenge07.wav?t=20110320071853 Erm... right. So considering that either the mercs of the boss got some serious buffs and nerfs towards weapons and general stats, I figured there should be a thread containing said buff and nerf updates. Also, this thread could be used as some sort complaining thread when things get a little out of hand and the hales are just flying through the map oneshotting everyone or vice versa, so that not every single note needs a new thread, but I guess that's the staff's choice after all. Anyway, getting to the point: Buffs and nerfs. Recently, a rising amount of players (not calling any names) complained that the bosses needed some buffs to make them equal to the buffs the mercs got (mainly reviving, because that is a huge buff). I myself had mixed feelings towards that since I like a little bit of a challenge when playing hale (yes, spam me with my chat quotes full of salt, I don't care), but what @rswallen and me came up with made up for that: Hardmode So, what is that? What sounds like a crappy Binding of Isaac: Rebirth copy could make the games a lot more fun towards new players and still keep the challenge for regulars and/or pros. It's supposed to be an option when selecting if you want to be hale or not (or if you want to be on the hale queue or not). There would a third option named something like "Yes, enable hardmode hale for me", essentially enabling a hardcore hale mode for you if you select it (duh, who would've figured that). Your playstyle as a merc wouldn't change, but when you get to play as hale some changes apply: 1. No rage - your rage bar won't fill up to 100%, essentially disabling rage, but still enabling HHHJr. to wall climb 2. No further buffs - in the last update Jelly made, hale got buffed (read below for more info to that), those buffs will not apply when you play hardmode To win in hardmode, you obviously would need skill, experience and game sense as hale. To reward that, maybe the hale gets more points? Not really sure if any of that is possible, but that can get figured out later... Having that out of the way, here is a short list of buffs for mercs and bosses that actually changes the game in one way or another (meaning, weapons buffs and nerfs aren't on it) and which aren't on other VSH servers as far as I saw it: Mercs: - Reviving - Taunt crits (some other servers had minicrits instead of fullcrits, some didn't have it at all) - Amplifier (most servers had it) - !rocketme (was a second suicide option on one server, for whatever reason you would want that) - Special shotguns (Soldier -> homing rockets, Pyro -> ignite hale, Heavy -> get health + overheal, Engineer -> get metal) Bosses: - Pushback reduction (got buffed from 40-50% to 75% recently) - Wallclimb for HHHJr at the cost of 15% rage per wall-hit - !rocketme Lemme know if you think any of those hardmode ideas are worth something and feel free to suggest some other buffs/nerfs for mercs and bosses
All is nice and well, i really like some ideas. Thing is, we only have 1 jelly. So if he is up for it its good..
In addition to what pixel mentioned, here's some other changes: Medics now actually heal the boss when they steal energy (though the health gained is minimal (max of ~10hp/s). Short Circuit nerfed (reduced range and arc angle; more like it was on LZ before Valve reworked it Weighdown stomp will be back soon (found the reason behind its disappearance) Ideas: Remove heavy goomba health gain. Its actually a bug in the shotgun plugin (only checks if the active weapon is shotty, not if shotty did the damage) Only give full crits if a taunt lasts <2-3 seconds (ie only give minicrits for conga / Hi5 / RPS) Make a separate charge meter for HHHj wallclimb (that constantly regenerates, but slow enough that you can't wallclimb indefinitely) Increase boss starting health slightly
I don't think we should nerf the mercs. We have low players as it is. Making it harder for the players than it already is would just push more people away from the VSH servers. I like the hardcore mode tho for the boss. Would be fun and keep the rage nubs away. Maybe you get more hp if you select it? (20-25% more)
I always thought the goomba shotgun was intentional. Well, I wouldn't mind it if its gone, since you can get 1k HP with one shotgun clip if you can actually aim anyway. Other ideas are good IMO. On a further note, the health which shows when you type !halehp and the health which shows on the health bar don't match up sometimes (health numbers are higher than the bar shows). I'm guessing that's because of medics healing the boss and the bar not updating. Fixed that
Quite possibly. It would depend on the event that triggers the update. If it only updates when the boss takes damage, then that could well be the case (can't remember atm). On the other hand, we could just tie the healthbar into the halehp command, such that it shows for a few seconds then vanishes. As for tauntcrits, when I say '<2-3 seconds', I really mean 'any taunt that can't be interrupted by pressing jump' (such as weapon taunts, which last on average 2-3 seconds). The reasoning behind this being once you start, you cant stop, and you can't guarantee that the boss will show before your crits run out (whereas with Hi5 style taunts, you just keep taunting until the big bad monster appears). It's all about 'risk vs reward'; the greater the risk, the better the reward.
You can say this because you own said taunts, but what about the players who do not? I think we should not take away the taunt crit from weapon taunts. Otherwise we require the player to get the taunts or he'd be at a disadvantage. That could result in people just not coming back to us. Also about the medic healing the boss; is that in combination with the damage reduction buff the hale gets or as a replacement?
That's what I meant Weapon taunt -> can't interrupt -> full crits Conga taunt -> can stop at any time -> minicrits Apologies if that wasn't clear :s Currently both are in effect, but either can easily be removed if needed.
I think if, for example, heavies could only get mincrits for conga taunts it would make them pretty useless. A good hale would wait for the heavies to do the taunt that is un-interruptable, then kill them while they are essentially stunned for like 3 seconds.
A good heavy would just do a minicrit taunt and exercise exceptional aim, or stand by an amp and scream at the engineers to keep it filled. How do you think heavies survived before Valve added the High-five taunt?
Good work.. i like the ideas, the heavy stomp to get health with shotgun out is just funny, i would leave it in. Otherwise hale can just go up caves and kill everyone (as in, he has to actually check if there is a heavy)
I found a bug! (or a glitch, or whatever is it, and I don't even know if you were aware of this) Pyros can get infinite crits without taunting or using an amplifier. How to? Very simple. With the degreaser equipped, switch to the melee weapon. Then, whenever you want to shoot a crit, switch to your secondary or primary and instantly fire it. Well... That's all. http://thebest404pageever.com/swf/success.swf
Neither bug nor glitch, just the way the game works. When it can't turn off the crits faster than the weapon switches, the new weapon will have crits, even if just for a split second. To prevent this from happening without too much hassle, I guess the weapon switch speed bonus for the Degreaser could be turned down a bit (maybe to like 40-50%, so that it's still viable)?
How about specifically for degreaser make it turn off crits faster after weapon switching instead.. why nerf a weapon instead of fixing the issue..
So just to clarify, its not actually infinite crits, just guaranteed crits for 0.2 seconds? If so, its just a timing issue (as shadow indicated). Melee crits last 0.3 seconds (applied every 0.1 seconds) and are removed automatically after that time expires. So if weapon switch takes less than 0.3 seconds, you will get crits briefly. If thats the case, fix is easy
Because I wasn't sure if you could do it like Jelly described. It's obviously better if he can fix it without nerfing the weapon
@rswallen On the other note, could we buff 'Third Degree'-s ubercharge gain for medics a little bit, it's not underused.. it's not used.. It's extremely weak to point of useless. Considering most good hales can evade, I see no reason in not buffing it a little bit. Also is it possible to add different calculations for hale's hp depending on how many people are on the server? If so then maybe as an idea consider classifying his health based on the 3 categories we have for maps: On less players have XCalculation, On Average have YCalcualtion, and on Many have ZCalculation. Could mess with testing easily, pretty sure. Currently the boss seems to be wrecked on very little players, often on average ones goes quick aswell (depends on if closer to little or many), the game lasts a while only on many players as his hp is so high he's a bullet sponge. Not saying this is bad, he should be with that many flying at him. But kind of average it out around so players have to be 'scared' when the boss targets them regardless of how many players around him exist.
No. This will only really effect those of lesser skill (whilst top tier scrubs like @PixelBacon will be mostly unaffected). As it stands, the current value of 6.7% uber gain gives a max uber duration of 33secs or +175% (see attached text file for proof) - more than enough. While I agree that boss health calculation could do with a revision, I don't believe this is the best way to do it. The current expression used to calculate the max health already takes player count into consideration. Would be easier to just tweak it a bit.