Often there's gonna be 2 scouts on a team that don't help the team all and manage to get the scout slot every time. The only way to get their slot here is by waiting until they become hale, which usually takes a whole map playtime. Could you make some kind of time limit on scout so people can't stay scout forever? And some kind of way to increase the time before you get kicked off scout, like doing a lot of damage every round. Yum
We with Jelly talked about this before few times, but didn't come up with anything good. Tho, now when someone asked this on forums, we will make it higher priority problem. So expect something for this in some time.
Could make it a donator perk though. Being able to switch into already full classes and kick someone else out of the slot.
Are we really going that way? I don't think this will contribute to the popularity of the servers very much.
did some more thinking/talking with oskis. here's the outcome: Marked as Useless A player who is "marked as useless" can be removed from a class slot simply by another player (who is NOT marked) selecting that class in the menu Players can be marked useless a number of ways: Players have a maximum amount of time they can be a class before automatically receiving the mark (15mins playtime followed by 10mins of "marked" as an initial idea) Players can receive the mark from an RTV style vote (once X players (lets say 50% of the server) vote for a player to be marked, a yes/no vote is called and a 75% vote in favour is required for the mark to be applied) Players can only be RTV marked after about 5mins of play (with 5mins cooldown if the vote fails) Admins have the power to instantly mark players Other stuff: The mark will only apply for the current class (ie marked as useless scout, but can still play as Heavy without being class-kicked) Admins can mark players for extended durations, and across multiple classes Damage will NOT influence the time before being auto-marked Donators will likely receive an extended playtime before being auto-marked (and a reduced duration) thoughts?
I would not boot people out of a slot if they are donaters. That would just annoy the non donaters, we have more of those then donaters.
I like the marking players idea Jelly. Kicking players off classes like others mentioned by just being a donator will tick people off.
It's nothing we (as a community) are "responsable" for. Every other community has the "issue" of popular classes filling quicker than others. If you (as a community) are going to interfere with plug ins, kicking players from these classes, that's were people will start to lose interest in our servers. It may yield you more donators, which is ofcourse very important for the future of the LZ servers, but I assume this will also leave us with less players actively attending our servers. The idea of kicking people out of a certain class can be (imo) accepted if there's a warning telling you, you can lose the class you are playing when you proceed being useless (or other criterias). That's were rswallen's "Marked as Useless" idea can come in handy. I'm also not too fond of giving the option to vote for useless players to the players. We don't want votekick- and voteban-like catastrophes again. But please, for the love for our servers and playerbase, do not kick players out of a class just because a donator would like to play that class. I assume you wouldn't like that either when you were playing as a "normal" player on our servers.
I do very well understand your point. Reserved server slots for instance are worse though. They kick you from the server entirely if a reserved slot holder wants to connect. Worked on other servers too. I'm not sure how it's implemented on trade servers at the moment, if it's any similar, we have a worse system in place already. And if you do not deal with reserved slots that way then a) Either admins cant connect in case an admin is needed or b) once there are 2 or 3 donators in reserved slots on the servers, no more donators can connect anymore, making their donation reward pointless. In the end, being kicked out of a class like sniper or scout doesnt seem bad at all to me. They are limited to two right now on VSH, and current the system is much more unfair, basically favouring people with fast connections/PCs. Of course it will be annoying to be kicked out of your favourite class, or the class you just wanna play right now, but currently you wouldnt even be able to switch to it most of the time. If a player is annoyed by that fact, he just donates and can play his fav classes whenever he wants. Almost all donator perks that are really worth paying for will be to a non-donators' disadvantage. The question if it's reasonable. Being kicked out of scout or sniper seems fine, and much less enraging than being kicked from the server for instance.
Giving perks to donors is one thing, dealing with useless folk is another... At one point I can't accept the idea. at another, I can agree on it.. Simply because a donor wants to play that class which is full doesn't mean he should kick someone out of it instantly.. That could also be abused for trolling by joining that class in the last second before the round starts and the guy who was at that class would get kicked into a random class where it would most likely cause rage and one less player on the server... bit by bit you could see where this would go. I agree there's useless people and there should be a way to deal with them... but an effective way where we wouldn't lose too many people...
You could possibly apply both systems then. Example: There is a useless scout. Nobody else is willing to switch to scout. Useless scout stays. There is a useless scout, non-donator wants to switch to scout. At the end of the round useless scout is kicked out of scout, non-donator becomes scout There is a useless scout, non-donator and donator want to play scout. At the end of the round useless scout is kicked out of scout, donator becomes scout. This way you can also still apply the criteria rswallen has posted and the system would be fair, not favouring donators too much.
Yes but a person who does contribute should not be considered useless, and therefor should not be kicked out of the slot, what if both are useful and a donor wants to join it.. your donor feature will kick one of them at a guess and you'll lose a person at a time like that.. Also.. what happens if the donors are useless... nobody can kick them.. you'll get an admin call.. and most likely we'll have arguments "But I donated" Yes I am fully aware it will be clear he is not excluded from the rules but you'll have a double edged blade where you lose players because you kick them out and you'll lose that player that donated after he breaks the rules eventually... It's inevitable that you'll be losing players with a feature that is booting someone out for no reason (or if you like it on a whim of a donor...).. Please think about it.. I've said all I needed to..
You forgot that either way rswallens system would apply. As I see it now, in most cases it would have to be an admin to mark a player as "useless" so the admin presence for a system like that to be working and avoid abuse (like removing votekick again) would be required anyway. Still though, given that the system works, donators could be marked as "useless" too, by player vote or by admin. My idea was not only applying to non-donators (as the people that can be marked useless). In the end it would just mean: A player (no matter if donator or not) is useless and donators always have the edge if they want to fill his slot.
Wouldn't a damage quota solve the problem? Let's say a scout needs to do a certain ammount of damage over maybe 1 to 2 rounds, if he doesnt fill the quota, he'll get booted to another class. Same as the other limited classes. Scout maybe do 1000 damage over 2 rounds. If he doesn't fill the quota he'll get booted to another class. I think that would be fair to everyone and it would eliminate useless players which occupy scout 90% of the time.
Donators perks can be a good idea. Also you can try the !calladmin to report annoying people. Have fun!