VSH, Too. Many. Heavies....

I thought heavies are limited, but I guess not.

 

Just a little heads up: Ideas and suggestions section: <a class="postlink-local" href="http://www.lethal-zone.eu/forum/ideas-suggestions/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">ideas-suggestions/</a>

In the future you can make a thread there.

As for the actual content of your post, I wouldn't know, I don't play vsh. I'm sure somebody more capable of handling that will respond soon.

 

i agree
5 crit heavies (all with brass beast) are impossible to wipeout when they stand on high spots
the insane amount of knockback hale receives completely nullifies any forward momentum they possessed, and often sends them flying backwards
please impose a class limit

 

Code:

//Put -1 for no limit, 0 for disalowed, and any other number to set the limit
                                "scout"         "2"
                                "sniper"        "3"
                                "soldier"       "-1"
                                "demoman"       "-1"
                                "medic"         "-1"
                                "heavyweapons"  "5"
                                "pyro"          "4"
                                "spy"           "3"
                                "engineer"      "3"

Current config...

 

Well, if peaple find 5 heavies OP or too many, then maybe put it to 4?
And limiting it to 3 isn't good, 4 should be the minimum, I think.

 

Already suggested to Snel.. but the maximum amount of them that should be varies between maps.. if a map is very to extremely open then even 3 heavys can be too much simply because of their positioning and the fall in between especially if it's harder for boss to get a good jump on them..

My suggestion is 2-3.. people will say too low but I still say varies between maps

On a personal note ,I still think it should be possible to win without using taunt/rage if you can do it.. with 5 heavys... there's not really a choice given.. no matter your skill if they all position right.. you have to use it..
People are already trolling/making fun of people who used to be able to win without it saying they're bad now.. smack talk or not still can cause a scene easy where someone should jump in and stop it before it grows into something bad.

Anywho Alias could set it then I suppose..

Cheers~ o/

 

Or just lower knockback a bit. Its nuts on the Vagi (I get its there because of the uber) but when you dont rage its hell.
Maybe lower knockback and higher the amount of dmg needed for rage?

 

Knockback is increased recently because of a new setting snel put on all servers.. It's standard to all TF2 Servers and can be turned off but basically bullet spread is lowered reason heavys can blast the boss sky-high.. Snel can turn it off but since Bosses already have knockback resistance I think just less heavys would solve the problem well enough.

Maybe wait for Snel to jump into this discussion :3?

 

just checked the plugin sourcecode.
no sign of generic knockback resistance for hales
made this (knockback resistance from heavies wielding any minigun):

Code:

	else if ((TF2_GetPlayerClass(attacker) == TFClass_Heavy)
	{
		switch(wepindex)
		{
			case 15, 41, 202, 298, 312, 424, 654, 793, 802, 811, 832, 850, 882, 891, 900, 909, 958, 967:		//list of all heavy minigun defindex
			{
				if(TF2_IsPlayerCritBuffed(attacker))
				{
					ScaleVector(damageForce, 0.25);	//change num to set amount of knockback hale receives
				}
				else
				{
					ScaleVector(damageForce, 0.5);
				}
				return Plugin_Changed;
			}
		}
	}

insert it here (line 4958):

Code:

			if (TF2_GetPlayerClass(attacker) == TFClass_Scout)
			{
				if (wepindex == 45 || ((wepindex == 209 || wepindex == 294 || wepindex == 23 || wepindex == 160 || wepindex == 449) && (TF2_IsPlayerCritBuffed(client) || TF2_IsPlayerInCondition(client, TFCond_CritCola) || TF2_IsPlayerInCondition(client, TFCond_Buffed) || TF2_IsPlayerInCondition(client, TFCond_CritHype))))
				{
					ScaleVector(damageForce, 0.38);
					return Plugin_Changed;
				}
			}
			//>>>HERE<<<
		}
		else
		{
			decl String:s[64];
			if (GetEdictClassname(attacker, s, sizeof(s)) && strcmp(s, "trigger_hurt", false) == 0)	// && damage >= 250)
			{

use at your leisure

 

In the previous versions of VSH mod all bosses had no knockback resistance.. leaving them to the mercy of all sentry's,soldiers,demomen and finally heavy's..
Whoever the boss was.. was bouncing so much that he simply couldn't do much and rage wouldn't help much since a few soldier shots from a distance and you're bouncing more and more a heavy could keep any boss at bay with a barrage in a straight line to the boss. also you could stun the boss after rage (ex. engi sc, sniper bow taunt [most effective])

After an update Bosses got knockback resistance and suddenly almost all soldiers became in-effective at it as they needed to have crits to do anything and we all know how easier it was without the need to taunt to save your-or an ally's ass out of danger.. This introduced an increase of pyro's to save teamates but heavys could only save the teamates in a sense if they have crits AND hit the boss while he's flying where a combo of pyro+heavy turned out great, demomen started hiding even more and watching stickies..
This didn't end here where LZ peeps thought of a nice way to end the round quickly.. boss had no stun resistance so sniper-bow taunt with an uber medic, + a scout(or anyone else but a scout is the fastest to place himself) on the head of the boss to block rocketme turned out a round finish as even if he raged sniper could still taunt and stun the boss...GG there instantly..

Next update introduced the stun resistance after each rage.. neutralizing the rest of the stun effects ...named above..

And then came the steampipe update .. VSH mod hasn't changed from that.. so either they're missing a few files (unlikely as non crit soldiers can't knockback the boss still and sentries can't lift and knockback the boss as before the knockback resistance update... OR TF2 has earned a few new configs in the bullet spread which Snel told me there's 2-3.. can be toggled.. but it's upto the people.. I think players deserve some knockback since the boss is (considering rage amount) almost always stun resistant.. Just fair in my opinion, but lowering the heavy count helps a lot and balances out the game of course..

Sorry for the long post of explanation just figured you could connect the dots and see how I see it...

Cheers ~

 

Snel said he wanted to remove the stun resistance he boss had when he raged. Not sure if he still wants to do that.

 

the bullet spread convar snel toggled on (tf_fixedweaponspread) doesnt affect miniguns (only affects shotguns/pistols), so its not that

there is also a damage spread convar (tf_damage_disablespread), but that just locks the damage per bullet to a set value (when off, bullets can deal +/- 10% either side of this value). but this shouldn't have had an effect either - average damage per player bullet will remain about the same (~50% of bullets get a damage buff, ~50% get a nerf) and thus average knockback will be unchanged (knockback is directly proportional to damage)

not sure of any other convars that can affect bullet spread/damage, or that could have affected miniguns

when did this "knockback resistance update" happen? (approx month would be enough)

@shroobus: we worked out where stun resistance is applied (a combination of the battalions backup effect and instant removal of stun if boss has said effect applied). just dont think its implemented in the current version

 

It's been a long while I just got used to it.. Snel could probably answer you that question as he's updating the servers all the time.

 

found the knockback resistance. tis a weapon attribute
but it hasn't changed since it was added

 

I remember when Natascha was useable in VSH. Single heavy could hold his own ground unless Hale gets close enough for rage.

I say limit it to 4 heavies.

 

Video Home System.

 

The 90's such a great time