Engie jumping an exploit?

plus the fact that when they release a beta version of the map, they'll get feedback from the whole tf2 community on glitches, bugs etc.
valve only gets feedback from a select group..probably from friends and family

 

my 2cents;

Well, i saw and heard alot of things where i said "Wow, are they serious?" i've seen lot's of situations where the other classes use the sentry to kill it's engineer... for example; a pyro drops down from above next to the sentry and the sentry starts shooting(obviously ), the pyro just strafes around the sg untill the engineer is between him and the sg and BAM, the engi got killed by his own sg.. how is that not an exploit then??? hope u guys get my point.. in my eyes, if a demo and solly can get there by rocket/sticky-jumping, it's allowed for engi aswell.. as long as the engi doesn't have to do weird jumping on his dispenser and bumping his head to get into walls(dustbowl exploit) and stuff, it's fine by me.. and ofcourse the obvious things that have to be present at the spot ur building(textures,visible by enemy,on map).. coz if that isn't allowed, then is building on the roof of B and C(gravelpit) not allowed aswell, building on the platform of the watertower(dustbowl), .......

 

+1

 

If you reach a spot which it's clear you should not be getting to it's an exploit.
Something which sticks out 1 pixel and you are able to stand on isn't intended for it. Bad design, map flaw etc.
Also, when you are getting on a ''exploit'' spot and you can clearly look outside the map, behind textures, in other words part of the map which you shouldn't see, it's clear you shouldn't be able to get there by the mapbuilder.

And if that's too strict, start making a list of exploits allowed and not allowed per map with pictures etc. which all admins should learn to see if a place is allowed or not.

 

lol, you want to start a "exploit" list of all 1 pixel ledges, edges etc that are in maps where a solly or demo can land, or ppl can climb up to? Most of which are INTENDED places for them by Valve?

I already named some places that are explicit only VISIBLE items, but not PHYSIC, cos valve didn't want ppl to stand on it.

Well, be ready to rate thousands of pictures then, and thats only the ones on official maps that I KNOW of... I know bout 50 places on pl_badwater, and probably find another 50 when I'm actually LOOKING for them. Know the fence near blue 1st spawn on the right? on that you could stand in the past, valve made a invisible wall there to prevent it, and I'm pretty sure they are aware of most of the others back then and just didn't adjust for those.

Those ledges and edges etc are reachable by a COST for jumping, it takes health or makes it vulnerable for a sniper, and soldiers/demo's dont last long there. With such a definition even the bridge on 2fort is not allowed, cos I can see outside the map there, as a soldier, demo, scout, hell, even a pyro can get there, was even on it as a sniper once. I tell you, thats a whole different way of sniping up there with 10 health left from the explosion of the sticky on the battlement and then sniping 4 snipers on their battlements.... shame I didn't have it on demo to record it for youtube.... that was way before I started to record everything.

I know a couple of maps very well, others I really would have to look around to find all the stuff. That would be a 10 min movie on each map, PER CLASS (solly/demo, engineer, sniper, scout and pyro) for all stuff one could find on a map.

/me empties his screenshot directory and goes into TF2

Imageshack, HERE I COME, I'll upgrade you to "ImageEgyptianPyramid", the shack is too small.

 

images taken from those spots. ~115 pics
http://img138.imageshack.us/g/plbadwater0000u.jpg/

overviews with markers on those spots. 15 pics.
http://img5.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=plbadwater0122.jpg

I counted 51 high spots, and those are the ones I KNOW of. Some are quite hard to get to.

and this is just pl_badwater. You cannot tell me that valve didn't intent all those spots. its TOO fucking many, and especially when MOST of those windows are NOT hanging out to sit on

/edit: oh, and now I remember another 5 spots inside the room next to the 2nd blue spawn I didn't count into it. so its total 56 I just found by strolling around, jogging my memories.
also: http://img32.imageshack.us/i/plbadwater0136.jpg/, those USED to be accessable, but could not get there this time.

 

Isn't it easier to say "keep it as it is" but 1 remark, if the engy needs to "fly" to another space its considered bad use. I hope valve fixes it because the engy can rocket jump himself to a lot of places ... maybe in the future if they dont fix it we can decide to allow it, but for now we see this as something which should not be intended use.

 

Yes Snelvuur, that's best.
Making a list of all little places you could stand on, visible or not is just bs.
It's impossible to maintain such a thing because players will stand just next to such a spot and go : hey this spot wasn't mentioned.
Simplyfying is better for clearity, that's why simplyfied our ingame rules too.
Too much rules , exceptions etc., leave room for gaps and other interpretations of that rule.

Datastorm didn't catch my sarcasm.
And no, 1 pixel riges are not intended for gameplay. That's not intended regardless of HOW MANY WORDS IN CAPS YOU USE. :roll:

 

That would be stupid... There are more exploits worse than just jumping to a roof... Better say: places where even soldier or demo aren't allowed, are also offlimit to engi.
It's not like I've seen anyone on a "uber"-spot where it's impossible to lose once you have a sentry there...

Prior to engi-exploiting, it would be nice if everybody stopped stickie-exploiting at set-up, sometimes I even see people with LZ(-war) tag doing it...

 

Honestly, I consider an exploit only something that's harmful to gameplay.
From my point of view, that sentry on badwater is easily spamable by demomen, and doesn't give any serious exploitable advantage to the engineer building there.

as for GTFO list of places that are not allowed to build, oh boy.. I am glad I am not playing on those servers..

 

Everything that isn't originally intended by the programmers is by definition a glitch.
The only thing is, GTFO has considered (nearly) every single glitch harmful and thus forbid the use of them (probably because they are too lazy to start making exceptions).
I think you should allow certain 'glitches' that are based on smart thinking, which Valve originally didn't see coming; like using your own dispenser to get up to higher places, which are also accessible by the ability of rocket/sticky-jumping. While not allowing obvious mistakes in map design, where Valve has forgotten to shield of certain areas, which allow you to get outside of the assigned playground.
The spot in the example shown in the first post, no matter whether it's a Soldier, Demoman or Engineer accessing it, should obviously have been off-limits, because you are able to see places which the map designers have neglected to make the game draw, from that area in the map.
Also, I think the only problem of rocket-jumping by the Engineer is that it has a rather huge unintended (?) impact on the game (a whole additional range of accessible building spots), granted by a simple unlock. But I'm pretty fine with that though.

 

most engineer these day's are camping kiddie's with no skill what so ever haha so places like this won't be used that often because they don't even have the skill to pull it of xD (in hydro you can build on 1 spot but on the other side of the room you can get ON the roof now but it's a NO-BUILD zone so maybe valve DID intend to let people build there)

 

Since Valve has no intention to fix engy jumps I would say: Allow it all. There will always be greefers, but in all fairness there is not 1 spot I consider the ultimate spot. All can be easily taken out. Even I enjoy reaching places where you can't go normally but which is just fun for 2 kills and then it's gone anyway.

@doel: if you think otherwise we should set new boundrys, because at this pace we have to warn a lot of people...

 

let's just say, glitches like the ones upward had are a NO GO, bits like that one i think we can manage. nothing is safe 1 good uber and he's gone to so

most of the time people start whining about it because they don't know how to pull it off

 

Why is engie jumping an exploit? It's more like a new feature imo. (Or is stickie jumping and rocket jumping an exploit on pubs as well these days?.. I hardly see anyone stickiejumping or rocketjumping in pubs) :?

 

Complete different things, rocketjumps and stickiejumps are intended and hardcoded in the gameengine from the start.
engyjumping is build upon glitches,mistakes etc. in the map which sometimes get fixed, sometimes not.

 

think it's a unintended side-effect... they fixed the FF the bullets do and left the RJ in the game so i think if valve didn't want this to happen anymore they would have fixed it back then. look at it like the FaN triple jump...