Sooo... I kind of see the situation as this example: first rounds of the olympics are players being regularly checked on Drugs. some pass others get banned. next rounds, the testers are saying, meh doesn't matter we don't have the time or right system checking, just let 'em play. other rounds: everyone is using drugs due they notice testers aren't testing properly and thus the whole olympics is a junkie fest. (could be fun too) If you made rules then you should follow them strictly and not just in the beginning of the challenge.it's like having a pre-judged judge in the court, it doesn't make any sense. and the problem of not having the time or what so ever is something you should have thought about it. you knew there were going to be a lot of contestors, thus you should have thought of some system to make sure none of the players (even after they join the team) are higher than division 6. it's a bit of a management issue, isn't it? and we weren't involved at all with the other team. Yes, they are in our community but we don't communicate or anything with eachother (you see any sort of clue that we worked together in this thread?), we both kept our heads at our own teams and what they did with their players wasn't our business. ( you could see it as 2 teams joins a sport league from the same country. do they come from the same country? yes. do they have a connection with eachother? probably not.) but seeing how other teams are allowed to have a way higher devision players and we're with our pubbers and starters we're not given any chance! and how about the other pub teams, how would they feel being squashed to death as a infected by a tank? I feel that the teams with higher divisions would get an unfair advantage over the pub teams. THIS POST IS MISSING! please reset your new overload device, which is also missing. =)
The olympics have paid, professional staff. With a lot of people in it. ETF2L has, I think, 5? volunteers that do this. They have to go through an insane amount of teams in their free time. Yes, it's not as it should be. Yes, it's stupid that it went this way. But if they had to check all of the teams, you still wouldn't be playing now. ETF2L is doing the best they can and I only had good experience's with the staff in the past 4-5 seasons, (except some strange random demo check last match).
Just because it's your opinion doesn't mean it's not immature. They joined the highlander teams when they weren't Div1-5 yet and that was what the rules stated. You could easily have done the same, and you didn't. This on the topic of comparing the Highlander Challenge with the Olympics. And we didn't change or stop following the rules. They were there from the beginning: Seasons 5/6/7 Div5+ Experience? You're out. We still enforce that rule. S8 wasn't counted because it hadn't even started yet. LZ bend that rule with LZ.Yellow joining the other Highlander team (LZ.Yellow would've been going to Div5/4). Other teams picked players that happened to go from Div6 to a higher Div. What LZ.Stew did is absolutely no different and I don't hear anybody saying that's wrong. You chose not to take in players with only D6 experience. They did. They abided by the rules perfectly, both then and now. You want us to predict the future and keep track of 10,000 people at all times? Not gonna happen. Not with us, not with Valve, not with any other organisation organising this. The rules were set at the start and we follow them at all times. You took in players you knew, they took in players they knew. Theirs happened to be better than yours. Neither team broke any rules.
You don't have to check all 10.000 participating teams... It's just that we have to play against them, so naturally we go and check everything by ourselves, prepare a bit for our match and we discover something like this. So we point it out and your counterargument is that you do not posses the manpower to check out hundreds of thousands participants. I don't really get that. The teams that have to play against guys like that will already do that checking their selves. Although it was clear from the beginning that it wouldn't really get that fair in the end, do rules really have to be limited to the letter, even though a pub team obviously can't make it to div 2 in their first season? At least a kind suggestion that they should leave the tournament be would be nice. Mweh, we should get Fallen into our team.
How can you not understand this? WE DON'T INTERACT WITH YELLOW TEAM AT ALL. Just because one of LZ's teams did it does NOT condone it in anyway. That is a bad foundation to base and argue your entire point on. ETF2L should have asked for more volunteers, as it clearly took them a long time to get it organised, which I respect but I feel it should go smoother than this. It's like saying if a murderer/paedophile lives in our city/town/village community we condone that action. Not at all.
Heh, Zippy, that stuff with Yellow's a bullshit argument anyway we don't go ahead and do all that work for them, reporting all possible cheating teams (that they won't even take action against). We just see a team that we have to play against doing it and try to point it out, couldn't care less about other teams doing it with ETF2L taking a attitude like this about the issue.
10.000 players, not 10.000 teams. My counterargument is that it goes by the rules, and that you could've done the exact same thing. They simply picked better players than you did. Whether they're Div6 this season or Div2 this season doesn't matter at all for their skill level, they'd be just as good. Pub teams unable to make it to Div2 within 1 season? Fallen does it. He's easily of a Div2 standard, already was that when he joined LZ Green. Tom T@ilor did it. Went straight from pubs into Div2. Just because you can't doesn't mean nobody can. I've got quite a few friends who are better than most Div6/5/4 players and have never touched competitive at all. You're whining about the enemy following the rules and picking betters players. Why should they leave the tournament? Rules say: No players from Division 5 or higher in seasons 5, 6 & 7. Div6 is allowed. Did they play in Div5+ in seasons 5, 6 or 7? They did not. Hence they're allowed to play. It doesn't matter that you don't interact with yellow. Same community means that there's a link. I'm not basing and arguing my point off it, it's an additional fact I pointed out. That analogy is wrong. A fitting analogy would be 2 football teams from the same village, 1 only taking people from that village and the other taking people from everywhere. The 1st team then proceeds to complain about other teams not restricting themselves like that and picking better players without saying anything about the 2nd team doing the exact same thing. Point out exactly which rule those teams are breaking. Teams that break the rules get removed, those that don't do not get removed. Think for a second. You think those players would be any less good if they were in Div6 for season 8 too?
Guys, Do you know what's UTTER BULLSHIT? This whole fucking conversation! ETF2L is right. The team is legit, and it didn't break any rules. The fact that this sucks for us is a shame. But I don't know about you? I sure as hell haven't given up our goal to bring this cup back home to LZ! If anyone think we're going to pussy out because of this, they're wrong. We're going to put up one heck of a fight and show those div2/3 players what we're made of. Tbh I'm disappointed that Kittens en Zippy brought this to the steam forums. That is not necessary. What were you planning to achieve? Only thing you did was a flame war and bad name for LZ. Both aren't appreciated. Now that is the last thing ANYONE is going to say about this matter. We're moving on and preparing for the next match. I'm sorry I'm going to have to do this the harsh way, I don't like it, but apparently you guys need it: ANY comments about this subject that isn't a step forward, but stays whining, WILL result in a suspension for the next match. Either here, on the steam forums, or on the ETF2L forums! I don't want us to look like whiners or pathetic bunch of losers. Heads forward, no looking back.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8KQmps-Sog[/youtube] We've came this far and we're not going to give up! we will fight for our virtual lives and WE WILL BE VICTORIOUS! Do not get demoralized, stay calm and we can do this thing!
The last thing I'll say about it is that to me, it seemed the teams were breaking the rules. If I was wrong fine, but I think ETF2L maybe should make it more clear in future tournaments (likely to happen considering the amount of teams that were kicked out initially).
I understand the constraints that ETF2L faces with the manpower they possess and such. Buff and Bill seem convinced that im qq'ing over the fact they picked better players. It is not so at all, it just doesnt seem right that someone who played in Division 3 last year is not allowed to play, but someone who plays in division 3 this year is. Im sorry that you think my actions are reproachable Kilvion, i merely wanted to discuss with the wider community in general what they thought about it. Thats what forums are for, Buff and just about everyone else completely misread what i was trying to convey as whining.
Buff and Bill is the same person, i.e. me. You are not complaining about that inconsistency at all: You are simply complaining that someone who is good and can safely be assumed to be of a certain skill level that is well above that of most people is playing in a team you're going up against. Along with this comment: There is absolutely no intention of starting a constructive debate, and if you truly did intend that you need to learn how to start one. Killvion wanted us to stop, and I'll respect his wishes. This is my last post on this debate in this topic. If you want to continue, find me on IRC @ #etf2l.
+1, i think too many people forget that. =) when I started this thread I never thought we would go that far in the tournament, so, as a player who's new to competitive TF2, I'm already quite happy. That's a pity most people think this event has to be compared with the "officials" ETF2L seasons, while it was organized for noobs like me ^^ ! BTW, I received that message from the ETF2L website : "Please add the correct score screenshot for cp_steel or verify the results. Thanks ". Killvion, did you do that already ? 'cause I don't know what's wrong with the current screenshot. Maybe the score ? Because they capped 4 points if I remember well, while they got 0 on the pic because of that problem we had.
It just shows you winning the first round 5-0. Partially due to the fucked up configs you couldn't get a proper screenshot. If they refuse to verify, contact an admin and link him the demos so they can see the score.
The problem with the screen is that the config wasn't loaded right, and because of that, the scores weren't kept right. Canfo said that we should either upload the prove of that we won, or the opponent had to agree on the results. Which they did after I diplomatically spoke with their leader. Besides that, I can already schedule our next match. So we won the previous round 100% sure I think we should try the match on the 19th? so we can practice on the 12th. (this time I'll arrange an opponent atleast DAYS before Sunday. ) Please all respond if you can play those day. I can't be there myself on the 12th, but like I said, I'll start looking for an opponent already, then you guys can practice.
As much as I agree with what Zippy and Kittens have said, I also agree with what Buffalo Bill has said. I don't like the fact that half of their players are playing div3+ in season 8. But rules are rules, and complaining isn't going to do anything apart from putting a bad name on yourself, AND the team.